Q&A with Michael Furci
02/19/2004
Furci Home / Fitness Channel / Bullz-Eye Home
I received quite a few
letters in response to my last Q&A regarding a teenager who told
me he was a vegetarian. Most of the e-mails were basic inquiries. There
were some, however, written out of emotion and ignorance. The following
are some of the best with my responses. I think you will find them
entertaining as well as educational.
Q: Your
Mike Furci is displaying high levels of ignorance as well as
insensitivity by advising that a vegetarian diet will compromise
his health. This has no foundation in truth and in fact studies
have shown no difference in the ability to build muscle from
an intake of equivalent levels of vegetable protein such as soya
compared to meat. He should also be made aware that a vegetarian
diet is healthier and vastly reduces incidence of all types of
cancer as well as reducing risks of heart disease.
If Mike Furci wishes to promote a carnivorous diet out of a lack of respect for
vegetarians or out of a clear sense of prejudice than that is his choice. I do
object to him presenting his prejudices as scientific reasoning when there is
in fact none to support him.
Barry Heaven
A: Barry,
Granola boy, before you open your pie hole, why don't you do a little research?
There are countless studies to support my views.
First of all, I never said a vegetarian diet was bad for one’s health. I said
there are no benefits as opposed to an omnivores diet.
Secondly, as far as your opinions on the quality of plant source protein (SOYA)
go, you couldn't be more wrong.
You and many others, thanks to our billion-dollar food industry and irresponsible
media, have swallowed a large load of shit concerning soy. The ability of soy
protein to decrease testosterone levels is well demonstrated. One study displayed
a 76% decrease in testosterone production in men, after ingestion of soy protein
over a brief period of time. (Zhong, et al. "Effects
of dietary supplement of soy protein isolate and lowfat diet on prostate cancer." FASEB
J 2000; 14(4):a531.11)
In another study, using healthy adult males, a diet containing soy was compared
to a diet consisting of meat protein in terms of sex hormone concentrations.
After evaluation, testosterone levels were significantly lower in the soy diet.
Not only this but the estimated amount of free testosterone (the type that produces
most of the effects males are looking for) was 7% lower after the soy diet as
well. (Habito RC, et al. "effects of replacing red
meat with soyabean in the diet on sex hormone concentrations in healthy adult
males." Br J Nutr 2000 Oct;84(4):14-8.)
The list goes on and on.
As a matter of fact, many scientists, including those from the Department of
Health and Human Services Public Health Service Food and Drug Administration
National Center for Toxicological Research, are very concerned with the negative
effects soy has on humans of all ages. Here is an excerpt from a letter concerning
the health claims of soy protein:
“We are writing in reference to Docket # 98P-0683; Food Labeling: Health Claims;
Soy Protein and Coronary Heart Disease. We oppose this health claim because there
is abundant evidence that some of the isoflavones found in soy, including genistein
and equol, a metabolite of daidzen, demonstrate toxicity in estrogen sensitive
tissues and in the thyroid. This is true for a number of species including humans.
The health labeling of soy protein isolate for foods needs to be considered just
as would the addition of any estrogen or goitrogen to foods, which are bad ideas.”
To read this letter in its entirety go to: www.t-mag.com/articles/185soy2.html.
I don't mean to sound offensive, but I get very tired of hearing nonsense. Like
yours.
Because of its length, I’ll answer the next message, from
Chilton, point-by-point within his letter.
Q: Hi
Mike,
In your article, you said..."I have but one question for you; why in the
hell are you a vegetarian? But before you answer that, are you a true ‘vegan’
or an
ovo-lacto vegetarian?" That's how you see vegetarians? If he'd been a Vegan,
he would have said he was a Vegan. It's not a choice people accidentally make.
You're coming down pretty hard on someone who probably did a lot more research
into this than you did, as evidenced by the rest of your article. Yes, you were
accurate about a lot of it, for example...
Vegetarian is a broad term that encompasses a few
different dietary guidelines. A vegetarian by definition is one that doesn’t
eat meat, fish or poultry. Vegans are vegetarians who abstain from eating or
using all animal products including leather, silk, wool and other dairy items.
I would assume many vegans are also wacko PETA members. There are also vegetarians
who describe themselves as “ovo-lacto vegetarians.” These people eat milk and
egg products. I asked what type of vegetarian he was because he did not specify,
and I do not want to make assumptions. He may not even know there are different
types of vegees. But I’m glad you could read his mind Chilton, and clarified
that for me.
"And as far as the health benefits of being a vegan go, there are none for
the average healthy person." I completely agree. No advantages. I can't
say there are any disadvantages, as one of the triathletes I train with (a woman)
is a vegan, and is just as fierce a competitor as anyone else I've met, despite
her being almost twice my age.
What the hell does being a fierce competitor have
to do with your dietary habits, Chilton?
"Despite what you have probably read, and have been told, protein has NO,
that's NO, negative effects on the liver or kidneys in a healthy person." Most
vegetarians don't believe this. I don't think I've heard anything like this since
the ‘60s, actually. If anything, protein is something vegetarians spend more
time thinking and learning about than you apparently think they do. Certainly
more time than the 'average' person spends.
Were you even alive in the ‘60s, Chilton? The fact
that there are some vegetarians who believe there are no health advantages as
opposed to being a meat eater, is relatively new. Visit a few of the vegee Websites
and you’ll see that the majority still make unsubstantiated health claims.
Here's where you're getting into questionable territory..."I'll tell you
a few things science has discovered about men who are vegans. They have up to
10 percent less muscle mass than the average man and lower than average testosterone
levels. If this is what you’re shooting for, keep eating the rabbit food and
I'll eat the rabbit." Since you're willing to make this claim on behalf
of 'science,’ I'd like you to back up that claim. As in, please let me know what
medical journal you read this research in. Who did the study? What other factors
were involved? Is this among body builders, or just the general population? What
country? Most importantly, when?
Chew on these Chilton:
Nagata C (2000). Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen
and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men. Nutr Cancer; 36 (1): 14-8
Weber KS (2001). Dietary soy phytoestrogens decrease testosterone levels and
prostate weight without altering LH, prostate 5alpha-reductase or testicular
steroidogenic acute regulatory peptide levels in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats.
J Endocrinol Sep; 170 (3): 591-9
Straus L, et al. “Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive
tract.” Mol Cell Endocrinol 1998 Sep 25;144(1-2):83-93
Zhong, et al. "Effects of dietary supplement of soy protein isolate and
lowfat diet on prostate cancer." FASEB J 2000; 14(4):a531.11
Habito RC, et al. "effects of replacing red meat with soyabean in the diet
on sex hormone concentrations in healthy adult males." Br J Nutr 2000 Oct;84(4):14-8
"You say you have no fat to lose? You have no muscle to lose either. Now
don't get me wrong, Chris -- even though I am a meat eater, when I started my
senior year in high school I was 149 pounds at 5'10". Many teenage boys
are very thin at your age. But, in the winter of that same year I started to
eat more eggs, milk and meat because I wanted to be a bodybuilder (and of course
impress the girls). I also started to lift weights at that same time and graduated
at 185 pounds with abs. I gained almost 10 pounds a month." So was it the
weights or the eggs, milk and meat? As I recall, he said he was a vegetarian,
not a vegan.
Chris never stated what type he was.
"Chris, do yourself a favor and start to read more about protein. Educate
yourself. Look into both sides of the story. After that, if you still absolutely
refuse to eat meat or fish, than at least look into protein supplements like
Beverly International and MetRx products. Products like these are milk based." So
by your definition are they vegan, vegetarian, or neither?
Not my definition…Webster’s.
"This, I promise you, will be the best thing you can do for your body. Protein
repairs and maintains every tissue and cell in our bodies. A true vegetarian
diet yields pathetic sources of protein."... I ask because here you're making
idiotic claims about vegetarian diets. Seriously, if you're going to preach at
this kid, and tell him to go read more about protein, then the same could be
asked of you. Educate yourself. Find out what the difference is between a vegan
and a vegetarian. Find out how vegetarians think of protein TODAY, and discard
your outdated views about vegetarians. But most importantly, don't make claims
on behalf of 'what science has discovered' unless you have the PROOF to back
it up. Because that's what's asked of the actual scientists who do the work.
Idiotic claims about vegetarian diets? A vegetarian
diet is, in and of itself, idiotic. Many vegetarians have changed their views
about proteins because science is slapping them in the face.
You didn't answer that guy's question, and instead launched into a half-informed
missive on why not to be a vegan/vegetarian. You claimed that Paleolithic man
ate meat and fish, though that theory has widely been considered outdated since
the late-70s. Crack a book.
Outdated since the ‘70s? Chilton, you really need
to get to a library.
FWIW, I'm not a vegetarian. I get most of my protein from protein drinks, though,
as do most of the body builders and professional athletes I've known. And a lot
of them are vegetarians.
You might not be a vegetarian but you are a twit.
Most bodybuilders and pro athletes, by the way, eat plenty of meat and fish,
especially the successful ones.
Normally I find your articles well-informed.
That’s because they are.
-Chilton
Q: I
don't even want to waste my time arguing with you about your latest column; I
just want to tell you ridiculously stupid and biased it was. Where the hell does
a "fitness advisor" get off saying that a vegan diet has no rewards
and that being a vegetarian will only "hamper your muscular development?" Did
you know that there are hundreds of award-winning body builders that are vegans
and train just the same as meat-eaters? And why would you stress the fact that
protein is not bad for a person? Whoever said it was? Whoever said meat is the
only source of protein (and told the truth at the same time)? There are plenty
of sources of high protein for a vegetarian/vegan to divulge in.
You say you've heard the bullshit, while all you're doing is speaking bullshit.
Man has been eating meat since the Paleolithic ages. So what? What point does
that make? 90% of Southeast Asia does not eat any meat (or fish for idiots who
consider fish a plant). They've somehow been surviving for multiple millenia.
Are you simply saying that those people are purely magical or something?
No health benefits for an average healthy person, eh? How about reduced risk
of a heart attack, or reduced risk of heart disease, or reduced risk of high
cholesterol? Risk doesn't come purely from genetics -- what you eat can have
a factor, too, if you don't eat healthy.
I think you need to educate yourself more. If so many people are vegetarian or
vegan and leading healthy lives (and even having a muscular body), then how can
it be so wrong? You're obviously just against the idea of not eating meat. It's
one thing to say you're not vegetarian. It's another thing to completely discourage
people from doing by saying that it is harmful.
I'm 19, I don't eat meat, I bet I'm more educated on the topics of vegetarianism
and vegan lifestyles than you.
Oh yeah, I'm 6'3" and 180 pounds and I have perfectly fit, toned and strong
abs. The Chris boy that sent you a question was given crappy advice from you
and it's a shame.
-M.Vittone
A: Hundreds
of award-winning vegan bodybuilders? What fucking planet are you on? There are
none! I repeat, none! Now, by award-winning, do you mean local contests with
fewer than 10 competitors, all of whom are over 80 years of age? Udo Erasmus,
who is a leading expert on macro nutrition, was asked recently in an interview
if a vegetarian could be a good bodybuilder? He responded, “The body adapts effectively
to different diets. There are vegetarians who do well in bodybuilding. I know
a few, but they all eat some animal products – usually eggs and dairy.” When
asked if a vegan could do well with athletic and strength performance? He responded,
“That would be a lot more difficult. I haven’t met one, and it would be rare
to find one, but there may be a few.”
If you want to look like the typical Asian, be my guest. Nothing against them
as people, but I don't want their body type. And I don't want to just survive.
I am looking to gain the most muscle and strength as fast as possible. A vegetarian
diet will not yield close to the gains of a typical bodybuilding diet unless
supplements (animal proteins) are used. This is irrefutable.
Not only do vegetarians have difficulty in getting enough quality proteins, they
also can experience deficiencies in calcium and iron. Bodybuilders have more
demanding nutritional needs than the average person. These needs cannot be met
sufficiently with a typical vegetarian diet. Meat supplies not only protein but
creatine, which vegetarians also lack in their diets and is critical for muscle
contraction. (Sports Med, : 615-631, 2003)
It is well known in the scientific world that diseases like the ones you mention
correlate more with a person’s sugar intake than anything else. The higher a
society’s sugar intake, the higher the risk of heart disease, diabetes, obesity,
etc. Fat and animal proteins have almost no link.
Our nation’s largest long-term epidemiological study, sited below, is finding
that the higher a person’s blood sugar and insulin levels, the higher the risk
of hypertension, elevated triglyserides and other risk factors of heart disease.
(Liu, s., et al. “Aprospective Study of dietary Glycemic
load, Carbohydrate intake, and Risk of Coronary Heart Disease in U.S. Women,”
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 71, 2000, pp.173-178)
Again, nobody said the vegetarian diet was harmful.
And for the record, 6'3" and 180 pounds does not mean fit and strong, but
it is definitely skinny. Keep eating the rabbit food and I'll eat the rabbit.
By the way, the tone of muscle has nothing to do with the way it looks. Tone
is the amount of tension a muscle exerts in a relaxed state.
Get an education and get a life.
He writes back:
Q: Fuck
off.
Way to respond like an asshole to someone who criticized you.
A: I
responded accordingly. To an immature, uneducated, biased child who had nothing
of substance to say.
Nice job.
Got a question for Mike? Send it to mike@bullz-eye.com.
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