 Interview with Damian Kulash
by: Will Harris
08/25/05
With instantly catchy songs like “Get Over It,”
“You’re So Damned Hot,” “C-C-C-Cinnamon Lips,” and “Bye Bye Baby,” Chicago
popsters OK Go took the alt-rock world by storm with their self-titled debut of
2002. While in the midst of US tour with labelmates the Redwalls and preparing
for the release of their sophomore effort, Oh No, OK Go’s lead singer, Damian
Kulash, took some time out to chat with Bullz-Eye about the transition from
first to second album, the band’s diehard fans, and what Ric Ocasek has in
common with a strip club in Providence, Rhode Island.
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Damian Kulash: Hi, Will.
Bullz-Eye: Hello, how are you?
DK: Great, and yourself?
BE: Not bad at all. So how much press have you been doing today?
DK: Uhhhhh...this is the...fifth or sixth one, I think? But I’m doing
them in the comfort of a nice hotel room, so I’m fine.
BE: Whew! Now, I don’t actually have a hard copy of your CD yet; when is
it due for release?
DK: It’s due for release on Tuesday. A week from two days ago.
BE: And are you excited to have it in stores?
DK: Very! It’s a helluva sort of rollercoaster, the last couple of weeks
before your record gets released, because it’s, like, you spent...I don’t know
if everybody is as sort of obsessive and manic as we are, but we’ve been working
on this thing for months – in fact, probably years...or a year...at this point –
and it’s sort of like our whole lives have been compressed down into this tiny
little shiny disc. It’s, like, everything is...it’s all been crammed in there,
and now it’s just sitting there, waiting in some boxes to be shipped out to
stores, to see what people think of it.
BE: I’m sure your fans are absolutely ecstatic. I know you have a pretty
diehard fan base.
DK: We do have some pretty insane fans.
BE: The Jugglers, as it were. (NOTE: The Official OK Go Fan Community
is known as The OK Go Juggling Club.)
DK: (Laughs) Yeah, the Juggling Club! I wonder...you know, our
street team – it’s basically a street team, the Juggling Club – it was named by
Jorge, my best friend and who runs our website, and I’ve never talked to him
about what the reference is. Because it seems like...and no offense to the
jugglers of the world...but the juggling club, isn’t that the domain of the uber-nerds
in high school? Isn’t that the thing that people are a little scared of? Like,
“Omigod, those dudes are from the Juggling Club....!”
BE: Yeah, that and hackey sack, I think.
DK: Right! I suppose he’s just appealing directly to the sensibilities of
those who are already extremely nerdy. Or maybe he’s making fun of the same
people who are in it...? But they’re great, those Juggling Club people, I love
them! ‘Cause they troll around the internet and do all this great stuff, they
vote for us on things, they come to our shows and take pictures of us...I love
those Juggling Club people!
BE: You know, the first time I ever heard you guys was when you opened
for They Might Be Giants.
DK: Oh, wow!
BE: You played the now-defunct Boathouse, in Norfolk, Virginia.
DK: That place is gone, huh?
BE: Well, technically, it’s still there, but it got really ravaged by a
hurricane a few years ago, to the point where it was literally going to cost a
million bucks to repair it.
DK: Wow. I was surprised that place was set up like...it seemed like one
of the strangest designed venues I had ever played in. It was like the stage
seemed to be facing the wrong way. It was a weird place.
BE: But it had some significant history.
DK: Yeah, I know a lot’s happened there.
BE: Actually, the Violent Femmes just released a DVD of a show they did
there back in 1991!
DK: Really? We got to play with the Violent Femmes once.
BE: Where was that?
DK: Madison, Wisconsin was the wonderful place where we played with them.
BE: Was it just a one-off thing?
DK: Yeah. For a short time, we were managed by the same people. And, now,
we’re actually pretty regularly playing a Violent Femmes cover in our live set,
because I’m a big fan.
BE: Which song?
DK: “Prove My Love” (from the band’s 1983 self-titled debut).
BE: Very cool. Now, when you were opening for They Might Be Giants, was
that your first full-on national tour? Because I know it was still pre-Capitol,
or at least, it was before the album was released, anyway.
DK: Yes. We did some regional, Midwestern touring by ourselves, and we
did one East Coast run with an indie rock band that we were friends with years
ago, but I think the first sort of national touring was, yes, with They Might Be
Giants. Around the same time, we did a series of shows with This American Life,
the radio program on PRI (Public Radio International)...but that wasn’t
really a tour. We’d play shows by ourselves in the middle of the week, and,
then, on the weekends, we’d do these big shows with them. So it’s kind of hard
to call that a national tour. But, yeah, around the same time, we started doing
big tours with They Might Be Giants. And we toured with them a lot. We
actually probably did two full circles of the country with They Might Be Giants.
BE: Now, what’s the Ira Glass connection with ya’ll?
DK: Well, I used to work at public radio in Chicago, so he’s just a
friend through work, basically. But to be a little more honest, we worked in
different offices of public radio, so I never saw him or anything, and he just
came out to see our band play once because he had heard good things about it –
completely unconnected to any public radio thing –and he became a fan of the
band. And when he realized that I also worked in the organization somewhere, we
started hanging out.
BE: I know that, in the never-fallible All Music Guide, they refer to you
as being less pretentious than some of your Chicago peers.
DK: (laughs) You know, it’s hard to say what the Chicago scene is
now – and frankly, I don’t spend enough time there to really know – but
certainly, in ’99, when we were playing our first shows, pretty much everything
that people were paying attention to in Chicago – and I’m sure there was other
stuff going on – but the stuff that was getting national attention was
extremely, extremely heady instrumental music. And some of it was incredible!
But it was that sort of noodly, avant post-rock had a stranglehold on Chicago at
the time, so I think we seemed, by comparison, very, very different.
BE: You guys are definitely masters of harmonies.
DK: Thank you. That’s very kind of you to say.
BE: Do you consider it a curse that some people think of you as power
pop?
DK: (hesitates) I have to say, it’s true, we’re power pop. I sort
of resisted because, when I was growing up and in high school in the ‘90s, the
term power pop by then seemed to connote something along the lines of southern
California pop-punk. To my mind, power pop and pop-punk were the same thing 10
years ago. I’ve since realized, as I’ve learned more about music, that...well,
the phrase “power pop” was coined by the Who to describe their own music. And I
know that Cheap Trick, who are all-time idols of mine, are sort of seen as a
seminal power pop band. So I’ve realized that power pop is not a bad thing to be
called, and it is, I suppose, a pretty accurate description of what we do. We
do, y’know, loud but singable music. So, sure, I guess we’re power pop. But I
sort of wish there was a term that would differentiate it somehow from pop-punk.
There’s just something wrong about that.
BE: Okay, I gotta jump back to the All Music Guide just one more time,
because there’s a line in their review of your debut album that I just find to
be generally hysterical. It describes ya’ll as “having the raw sex appeal of the
Backstreet Boys, the ebullient energy of Hanson, and the wacky alternative rock
vibe of Weezer.”
DK: Wow!
BE: Please discuss. Have they gone wrong or not?
DK: Well, uh, I...I’m sure those are meant to be compliments. I think of
us as being ebulliently energetic, and I think of us as being relatively
attractive, and I think of us as being sort of...indie rock-ish. I’m not sure
that I would call us wacky...although we do do choreographed dancing on stage
sometime. The references all seem a little bit saccharine...but, then again, I
guess our first record was comparatively saccharine. It was a pretty sugary
record at times. It’s hard for me to comment on what people write about us or
what people think about us, because I think my own impression of us is so
totally distorted, because it’s our band.
BE: Well, you’re a little close to the topic.
DK: If that’s what they think, I guess that’s what we are. Our first
record got a lot of Weezer comparisons, I think, because it was loud and had a
lot of sort of Cars-styled keyboards, and Weezer was the only contemporary
reference for that, without citing the Cars directly, y’know. And the fact that
both Rivers Cuomo and I went to Ivy League schools, so we’re seen as the sort of
smarty-pants rockers or whatever. And I like Weezer. Weezer’s great. I think
we’re in a slightly different direction than they are right now. I think our new
record is more organic and sort of loose at the seams. It’s a little more rock
and a little less power-pop. Less gleamy and a little bit more...churning. I
think it’s groovier and less saccharine.
BE: Is that a rebellion against perceptions, or just a natural evolution
of the band?
DK: Um...it’s a pendulum swing, I think. I’m not sure if I could honestly
say if it had more to do with people’s perceptions or our own gut instincts. Our
first record was a very intentionally overproduced studio project. At the time,
the world seemed to have two modes, as far as we could tell: the indie mode,
which was remarkably obtuse and hard to access with your heart as much as your
brain, and the commercial rock world, which seemed to be either the droning,
moaning diary music – the Creed and Nickelback thing – or Nu Metal. So we were,
like, where’s the happy music? Where are the David Bowies, the Beatles, and the
Princes of the world, that make you actually want to be happy when you listen to
their music? So we decided to make as much of an in-your-face, aggressively
catchy pop record. And, so, we were really... (pauses) I can’t believe
I’m spending this much time discussing our first record when I’m supposed to be
talking about our new album! But, anyway, that record was basically a studio
project. We really just indulged ourselves with everything we could do in the
studio, and it’s all bells and whistles and stacking up guitars and harmony
after harmony after harmony. The new record, we really wanted to focus more on
the groove of it, and what our band really sounds like. The first record,
looking back on it, it sometimes feel a little...suffocated. Like, the whole
thing is just so crammed full of bells and whistles that there isn’t a
lot of groove left. So this record, I think it’s a lot more heartfelt. It’s more
rockin’! More propulsive, more energetic. We left a lot more space. We pared it
down to the elements that were necessary to get the songs across instead of
cramming it full of stuff. I think it’s still as melodic and catchy, but it’s
much more earthy and loose at the seams.
BE: Did you road-test a lot of the songs on the album?
DK: Not too many. A couple. There were two of them, I think that we did
on the road a bunch when we were touring for the last record. And then a few of
them...another half of the record, I’d say...we did a short tour in February of
last year where we played them to see how people reacted. But most of them were
just written in rehearsals together and playing in the studio.
BE: How’s the reception been so far?
DK: Oh, it’s been fantastic. It’s been really great. I can’t say we’ve
had any negative responses, really. It’s been wonderful. I imagine that, when
the record gets out there, there will be some from those who’re specifically a
fan of the overproduced quality of the last record. This one’s a lot rougher.
But, so far, people seem to love it.
BE: Well, if the hooks are still there, I’d think you could still pretty
much pull people in who liked the last one.
DK: Yeah! We didn’t really start writing a very different way. In terms
of the impulse behind the songs, they’re still all very hooky and singable and
short, succinct pop songs. We haven’t gotten into total self-indulgent 15-minute
groove songs.
BE: As far as your pop influences, some of them would seem obvious, but
I’ll ask you directly. The Beatles? Queen? The Cars...?
DK: Yeah, all those are right up there. We’ve been listening a lot to the
Buzzcocks recently...T. Rex, Bowie, the Stones, Sweet, Sparks. I really like
Sparks. And, of course, we’re huge fans of the Pixies, which I think comes out
much more on this album than it did on the last. I’m trying to think who else.
Prince? (pauses) I think that’s a pretty decent list.
BE: Based on that list, it sounds like the new album is crunchier than
the last.
DK: Yeah, a little bit. It’s weird. I think it sounds bigger because
there’s less in it, if you know what I mean. When we were making it, I
visualized it as follows. If all possible musical space were a sphere...if all
the sounds that you could put into a song were a sphere...our last record filled
up that sphere pretty much entirely. It would’ve looked like a soccer ball from
the outside. Each individual element took up as much space as it could until you
had this tiled object. And our new record, I think we left a lot out. So you get
something more like a spiky porcupine ball in the middle of the sphere. And
while a lot less is actually going on – instead of fifteen guitars playing one
line, there’s only one guitar playing each line – it sounds a lot bigger,
because things stick out of it. There are jolting things, and there’s stuff that
sticks up in your face. You don’t have to fight the overall fullness of it.
BE: You know, you mentioned T. Rex a minute ago; have you had a chance to
see the live T. Rex DVD that just came out, “Born To Boogie”?
DK: No, I haven’t. You know, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any live
performance by them.
BE: It’s from the ‘70s, but it was directed by Ringo Starr.
DK: (hearing incorrectly) By Ric Ocasek...?!?
BE: No, no, Ringo Starr. Although Ric Ocasek has a new album out, too.
DK: Oh, yeah? How is it? Have you heard it?
BE: Yeah, it’s really good. I guess you’d call it glorified demos, but
that’s what he was going for. Just him in the studio.
DK: That’s cool. You know, the night after Tim (Nordwind, OK Go’s
bassist) and I wrote our first song together, in college – we had been
friends for years and years before that, but, for some reason, it never crossed
our minds to write songs together – and he came to visit me, and we wrote this
song. We stayed up all night recording it. And, at 7 in the morning, we went
back to my apartment, and my girlfriend was sleeping, and she woke up. It was a
Friday morning in Providence, Rhode Island. And on Friday mornings in
Providence, Rhode Island, you can go to this strip club called The Foxy Lady and
have what they call the businessman’s lunch...the official name of which is Legs
and Eggs. So we went to have Legs and Eggs after we had written that first song
– with my girlfriend, who I think was more amused by the whole affair than we
were – and, at Legs and Eggs, there was a drawing when you came in, and she won
the drawing....and what she got was a Ric Ocasek album. (pauses) And I
have to say, it was not his finest work.
BE: (laughs) You don’t remember which one it was, do you?
DK: I do not. But it did not have the inspiration that he has had at
other times in his career, let’s just put it that way.
BE: Well, the true proof of that is that it was given away during Legs
and Eggs.
DK: Yeah, I think when your album’s being given away at a strip club,
it’s probably not doing very well.
BE: Have you bought any new CDs lately?
DK: Yep. I bought the new Spoon album, which I’m very pleased with. I
think it’s a great record. I bought the Arcade Fire record, which I like. What
else? Do you know Sam Phillips? Not the Elvis producer, but...
BE: Right, T-Bone Burnett’s wife. I’ve got a couple of her CDs.
DK: I just got...what’s it called?...A Boot And A Shoe. I think
that’s a beautiful record.
BE: She’s got an album called The Indescribable Wow that’s really good.
DK: I’ll have to check it out. Oh, here’s a new one that I got, but I
don’t know new the record is. I think it’s her most recent one. But she’s a
songwriter named Mirah. I think she’s from the Northwest. Olympia? The record I
got is called Advisory Committee, and it’s just fantastic, a really, really
great record. From what I understand, all of the backing tracks on it were done
by the guy who is also in the band the Microphones (Phil Elvrum), but her
songwriting has a very beautiful, folky thing. It’s like if Elliot Smith weren’t
quite so depressed. And was a girl. And then it’s set to slightly experimental
backing tracks. It’s really, really nice.
BE: So when do you guys hit the road to support the new album?
DK: We’re on the road right now. I speak to you from Dallas, Texas.
BE: Headlining?
DK: Yeah, right now, we’re headlining. We’re gonna go over to England to
be openers for Brendan Benson for awhile, then we come back here and do some
dates with Rufus Wainwright, and then back to England for some Kaiser Chiefs
dates. We’ll be out all year if we can.
BE: Now, see, of that bunch, the one that seems the most like it wouldn’t
belong would be you and Rufus Wainwright.
DK: Well, I’m friends with Rufus, and I think that has something to do
with it. He was very smitten with our choreographed dancing on our last tour, so
I think he just wanted us to come do it before he played. (laughs) We’re
certainly louder and more rock ‘n’ roll than he, but, songwriting-wise, I think
there’s actually a similar indulgent melody thing. We’re not a shouty, droney
rock band. We’re melodic. All of our songs are based around melody. And he’s an
incredible, incredible songwriter. I think we’ll fit just fine.
BE: Well, since my editor’s a big Rufus Wainwright fan, that would seem
the perfect place to end our conversation, but I do want to ask one last
question: on the new album, do you have any personal favorite songs that might
not necessarily be chosen as singles but that you’re particularly fond of?
DK: The song that I hope gets picked as a third single is called “Oh
Lately It’s So Quiet.” It’s a quiet little falsetto soul song, so it doesn’t fit
people’s expectations of us, I guess...but I’m really, really happy with it.
BE: Excellent! Well, it’s been a pleasure talking with you.
DK: Nice talking with you, too. Thanks for your time!
Send any questions or comments to wharris@bullz-eye.com.
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